Author Topic: 1977 Le Mans running and on the road  (Read 73281 times)

canuck750

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1977 Le Mans running and on the road
« on: April 20, 2017, 11:36:43 AM »
I have put the Le Mans on the bench and started the strip down, looked like this when I got it a couple years ago, fairing is off the bike but included, it runs ok just tired and tatty



Stripping it down to the last nut and bolt has begun



I have had all the body work repainted and picked up the fresh painted parts the other day so I have no more excuses to get on with it.

I need to pull apart the drive line and see what it needs and then just clean, polish, plate, replace and put it back together. :grin:

« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 11:05:33 PM by canuck750 »

Online Tom H

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2017, 11:40:16 AM »
Have fun! Sounds like it should come out looking sweet!

Tom
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Offline Groover

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2017, 01:15:08 PM »
Good one, definitely watching.
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Offline Northern Bill

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2017, 03:05:07 PM »
I will be looking forward to seeing the finished product.  It looks good already!
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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2017, 03:05:07 PM »

Offline smdl

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2017, 01:50:28 PM »
 :popcorn:
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canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2017, 02:25:00 PM »
Pulling bearings to prep some parts ready for powder coating, the swing arm pivot races were seized in place, took a lot of heat from the oxy/acet torch and blind bearing puller hammering away for minutes, the races are badly scored and the U joint carrier bearing is all rusted and notched, the U-joint itself is done, the needle bearings under one cap have migrated out of their proper place and where sitting in the bottom of the swing arm.



I like to clean up the working surfaces before I send for powder coating, a fine grit sanding wheel and a wire brush head in a die grinder works fine







Rear wheel bearings where also very tight and cush drive plate was really wanting to stay in place









centre bearing carrier is pretty rusted



but it cleaned up in the lathe with some emery paper



Wheel bearing surfaces need cleaning



Wire wheel makes short work of corrosion



Next to strip the forks and send off the frame components for matt black and the wheels and fork lowers for wheel silver

Offline pat80flh

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2017, 04:07:16 PM »
Nice, good stuff.  Personally, the bike didn't look that bad...
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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2017, 04:08:10 PM »
Can you image the disaster it would have been if you'd just got it running and rode it?  :shocked:
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Offline Groover

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2017, 04:21:34 PM »
Definitely needed to be gone through, good call. Looked good to go in your first pic!
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canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2017, 06:52:27 PM »
Definitely needed to be gone through, good call. Looked good to go in your first pic!

The right hand side of the tank was dented, side cover tabs broken (used reproductions), seat base cracked, front fender cracked, both repaired by my expert painter. Rear brake caliper frozen bleeder broken off, rusted discs, front calipers leaking, master cylinders leaking, brake hoses brittle, etc.......

Just the way I like to get them, for me this was the perfect Le Mans to buy.

The black goo that came out of the rear drive with a fair amount of water and the condition of the engine oil was frightening. Next week I will pull apart the motor and measure up the crank,. looking forward to finding out what the condition is. I am replacing the valves, guides and springs as a matter of course, Guzzi valve are so cheap I don't think they its worth grinding old ones.

Everything is there on the bike so that's a bonus.

Offline Northern Bill

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2017, 07:04:02 PM »
It is amazing how good a bike can look on the surface.  Your bike should be like new when you finish!
I will probably start a complete reno on my T3 next winter.
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Offline Groover

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2017, 12:51:56 AM »
Looking forward in seeing the valve and valve guide steps. Are valve guides something you buy, or are the made/machined to fit the application? How many miles do you think this bike has?
1981 Moto Guzzi V1000G5
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canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2017, 11:37:18 AM »
Looking forward in seeing the valve and valve guide steps. Are valve guides something you buy, or are the made/machined to fit the application? How many miles do you think this bike has?

Valve guides are press fit into the cylinder head casting



A snap type ring retains the guide from being pushed out the top of the head. The guides are pressed out with a simple tool and then new guides pressed on. If the cylinder head has worn away around the guide an oversize O.D. guide is used, the proper size reamed from the head casting. I have only had a couple cylinders heads that required an oversize guide.
Guides are pretty cheap (I get them from MG Cycle), and I always replace them along with valves and springs. MG also sells a spring kit - 4 outer and 4 inner springs for a reasonable price.

These old Guzzi's are 40+ years now and the springs and guides are usually due for replacement. My local machine shop told me years ago that the Guzzi valve faces were quite thin and not worth machining since new ones are pretty cheap and there only 4 of them per motor. The savings on not facing old valves by purchasing new valves (minor facing of head) is a little more cost than keeping the old parts in place. Now if I were rebuilding a modern 4 cylinder bike with 4 valves per cylinder that would be another matter.

Cheers

Jim

Offline Groover

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2017, 12:15:26 PM »
Good info, thank you
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canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2017, 01:15:20 PM »
Started to strip the motor down last night, haven't pulled the crank or cam, but so far thinks looks not too bad. Has the original timing chain rubber block tensioner, chain is loose, it will be replaced along with a new style tensioner. Cylinders are not scored, need to measure them and the pistons, rocker shafts are not scored, will replace guides, springs and valves.



I bit the bullet a couple weeks ago and ordered a Vapor Blast Cabinet from Vapour Honing Technologies, no more acid wash for me, just too dangerous and even with full protective gear I still get some residual ill feeling from using the stuff.  There is a lot of information on-line from Vapor Honing Technologies. plenty of demo You Tube videos that talk about use of the equipment, air compressors, blast media selection, applications etc...

http://vaporhoningtechnologies.com/vapour-blasting-motorcycle-engine-parts/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOJlrrLh7Ug

Vapor Honing Technologies makes a lower cost cabinet called the "weekend Warrior", it's not on their web site but I saw a link for it on a Laverda Forum and went from their.

Vapor Honing Technologies were very helpful, the Weekend Warrior is just like their heavy duty cabinet but less hp motor and does not come with all the options. The unit retails for $1999 + a little more for a foot pedal and inside wash nozzle. I had to get a bigger compressor, 5 hp single phase 220Volt, 80 gallon, I went for an Ingersol Rand unit.
The blast cabinet should arrive in a month or less then I am going to clean up all the castings on the Le Mans in the water blast unit.

I may have to into the part time cleaning business to offset the cost and justify the purchase but I am really looking forward to using it on this project and the other bikes I have in line to restore.




Offline Groover

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2017, 01:30:23 PM »
Vapor blasting is the ultimate solution I think. Good investment in your case since you seem to restore lots of bikes, plus the health concern is enough to fully justify the expense.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2017, 01:44:55 PM by Groover »
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1987 Moto Guzzi LM1000SE, b
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Offline swooshdave

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2017, 02:46:10 PM »
I can't believe you were using an acid wash.
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canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2017, 07:22:14 PM »
I can't believe you were using an acid wash.

Mark Ethridge at Moro Guzzi classics put me on to it, 100% safe for aluminum as it only removes oxidation and does not harm the casting. Many engine rebuild shops swear by it and I have had fantastic results for the past 6 years. But time has come to stop messing around with it as I really don't have the proper ventilation or make up air dystem to handle it properly. I will still use it for some delicate and or heavy oxidation clean up.

Offline swooshdave

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2017, 08:01:58 PM »
They swear by it because they make the shop apprentice do the dirty work.


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canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2017, 02:15:38 PM »
Finished the engine strip down and degreased and gave the parts a once over with acid wash, last time to finish of my Aluminum Brightener



Bearing, crank and cam surfaces look very good



First engine I have stripped where the bearings do not have visible score marks



Proof that filter motors last much longer than the early wire gauze set up



I need to mic the crank, clean the sludge trap etc.. but so far it looks good



Even the shells look good a micrometer will tell



I may just get lucky for one on an engine rebuild, the cast iron cylinders have no scores or ridges, hopefully a light hone is all they need. I will send the rods out to be balanced and measured.



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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2017, 09:07:19 AM »
 :popcorn: thanks for another bookmark!
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Online wirespokes

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2017, 12:53:42 AM »
Besides being an engine with an oil filter, could the absence of damage be due to cast iron rather than chrome bores?

canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2017, 04:18:18 PM »
Besides being an engine with an oil filter, could the absence of damage be due to cast iron rather than chrome bores?

Good point, the lack of chrome flakes + an oil filter = a much longer life expectancy for the motor.

Offline ailgev

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2017, 03:11:59 AM »
Hi There

I Thought Lemans Bores Were Nikasilratherthan Cast Iron.

You May Want To Check Before You Start Honing. Dont Think The Nikasil Plating Likes Honing.

Paul

Offline swooshdave

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2017, 03:34:56 PM »
Hi There

I Thought Lemans Bores Were Nikasilratherthan Cast Iron.

You May Want To Check Before You Start Honing. Dont Think The Nikasil Plating Likes Honing.

Paul

I thought they were iron.
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canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2017, 05:28:51 PM »
I thought they were iron.

Yep as far as I know the original Le Mans 850cc engines use steel (iron) liners, they sure look like steel liners.

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2017, 07:01:17 PM »
Hi There

I Thought Lemans Bores Were Nikasilratherthan Cast Iron.

You May Want To Check Before You Start Honing. Dont Think The Nikasil Plating Likes Honing.

Paul

Nikasil/Nigusil bores weren't in use until late '79/early '80 AFAIK. I had a Euro '80 SP here once that was the earliest Guzzi I'd seen with Nikasil.
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canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #27 on: May 09, 2017, 09:17:20 PM »
I stripped the forks down this evening. Not many surprises, the dampers have absolutely no damping action left in them.



The tubes are pretty good, I polished up the bare alloy tops of the fork legs.



I am going to fit progressive springs and FAC dampers. Fork dust boots, bolts, sealing washers and fork seals will be replaced, the lower fork legs are heading off to the powder coater along with the cast wheels, one coat of wheel silver and they should look like new.

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #28 on: May 09, 2017, 10:49:11 PM »
It's a marathon :grin: All the best :thumb:
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Offline Huzo

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #29 on: May 10, 2017, 02:18:52 AM »
Vapor blasting is the ultimate solution I think. Good investment in your case since you seem to restore lots of bikes, plus the health concern is enough to fully justify the expense.
Does vapour blasting give the "factory" look or does it come out a bit flat and without a sheen that new engines have ? Some finishes look ok, but if you touch them once with a greasy hand, you can't get the smudge off. Is that an issue with vapour blasting ?

 

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