The V7 shifting / shifter problems & questions thread

[virtualhabitat]

So I finally had an opportunity to adjust something on my V7.   At 2700 miles, the clutch adjustment had been slowly loosening over the winter ,til finally  it was getting difficult to shift (downshifting especially).  When I slid the rubber boot away from the adjustment thingy I noticed the locking nut had long since vibrated away from its lock position.  I adjusted the clutch really tight, leaving only a little play in the lever and locked it.  It was very difficult to get used to when I took it out on the road.  I was so conditioned to the poor adjustment I stalled the motor a couple of times.  I also noticed that the first gear 'clunk' sound virtually disappeared, but was present when upshifting into second and sometimes third.  It feels wrong somehow, but I don't know exactly how.

The question:   is there a proper standard adjustment?  how much free travel should there be in the hand lever?  The owners manual is silent on the subject.

[Carl Allison]

Absolutely DO NOT adjust all of the play out of the clutch cable on the small block Guzzis. This will leave the clutch push rod pushing continuously on the clutch and within a short period of time, the rod will drill through and weld itself to the clutch plate. Disaster ensues. I'm not entirely clear on which part actually gets ruined but small block experts such as Pat Hayes will soon chime in to correct whatever I've got wrong. Be that as it may, refer to your owners manual NOW and adjust it to specifications.

[virtualhabitat]

As I said, the owners manual seems to be silent on the subject of adjusting the clutch.  I did readjust it a little, but it was getting dark and cold so I didn't test drive it again.

[Carl Allison]

As I said, the owners manual seems to be silent on the subject of adjusting the clutch.  I did readjust it a little, but it was getting dark and cold so I didn't test drive it again.

You're right. I just searched the pdf owners manual and nary word on what the adjustment is supposed to be. Interesting though that page 18 and 81 mention clutch fluid. I know it's just wording out of the generic boilerplate owners manual file but what a hoot. They forgot blinker fluid though.  ;D

[virtualhabitat]

Oh gods, don't tell me I've ruined the blinkers because I failed to change the blinker fluid.  You'd think they would have a blinking warning light for something like that.

[sign216]

Those Guzzi transmission specialists, Zydeco Racing, wrote a blurb about clutch adjustment.  It's informative, but not especially clear. 

Find it here:  http://www.zydecoracing.com/tips.html

[virtualhabitat]

Reading that left me thoroughly informed about what happens when it is adjusted improperly and equally confused about what proper adjustment actually is.

[NOLAGuzzi]

When I was putting my breva back together I was told to put it on the centerstand and adjust until the back wheel was no longer engaged.

I wonder if the older manuals, v65's etc..., cover this in more detail ???

[Muzz]

Absolutely DO NOT adjust all of the play out of the clutch cable on the small block Guzzis. This will leave the clutch push rod pushing continuously on the clutch and within a short period of time, the rod will drill through and weld itself to the clutch plate. Disaster ensues. I'm not entirely clear on which part actually gets ruined but small block experts such as Pat Hayes will soon chime in to correct whatever I've got wrong. Be that as it may, refer to your owners manual NOW and adjust it to specifications.

There is a radial bearing in there with VERY fine needles. Suspect they just crumble under continuous pressure.

I adjust mine so the drag just goes when the lever is hard back, and make sure that when it is released that there is free play onthe lever and no pressure on the lever at the back of the gearbox.

As an aside, having had the mechanism apart when I did the gearbox, I would recommend that the lever at the rear of the gearbox be unhitched from the cable whenever you have the rear wheel out and clean and put some grease on that bearing. Clean if necessary. Watch out for the little pressure relief spring that takes the pressure off the bearing when the clutch is released. Trust me on that one! :-[

[Old Jock]

If its like the 5 speeders on the older big blocks, yes everything Muzz and the rest tell you. I can sometimes check it with a feeler between the pushrod in the end case and the adjuster, but its a hit and miss affair. I read somewhere about 0.5mm (in an article, by an owner not official Guzzi), just enough that you do not put constant pressure on the pushrod when the clutch is engaged (by that I mean when you are not operating the lever).

John

[flashman]

Weird.  I could have sworn I saw a graphic showing the proper adjustment in one of the owner's / service manuals, but looking through everything I have I can't find it. 

Anyway, here's a good post speaking to throwout bearings, etc, and what happens if you eat one.  http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=33562.msg517958#msg517958

The aim, as has been said, is to adjust your clutch so the throwout bearing isn't loaded when the clutch is engaged, and there's no dragging when it's disengaged.  And all this is assuming it's first adjusted properly at the arm end, with the clutch arm 90 degrees to the cable.  If that's the case, then you can start adjusting at the lever end. 

I have free play somewhere between 1/8 to 1/4" - ie there will be a 1/8" to 1/4" gap between the clutch lever and housing before you feel resistance.  As long as you can shift down into first without "clunking" the transmission too badly, the cable is tight enough.  How much more you tighten it then is rider preference based on feel.  Certianly I find with the free play above, I need just a hint of clutch lever for shifts, and mostly don't use it at all upshifting.   

But I don't think you can go wrong if you use shifting into first without clunking or lurching as the baseline, then work up from there, with 1/8" free play as the other outside limit.     

[virtualhabitat]

well I rode it to school this morning with the new readjustment and it feels much better.  I have about a 1/4" of free travel in the lever before I feel any resistance and the first gear clunk is still nonexistent. 
thanks for the replies.

[sign216]

well I rode it to school this morning with the new readjustment and it feels much better.  I have about a 1/4" of free travel in the lever before I feel any resistance and the first gear clunk is still nonexistent. 
thanks for the replies.

Glad you sorted it out.  When you get some free time, check the pivot arm at the other end of the cable, at the clutch itself.  You want the arm free from hitting anything, when either the hand lever is pulled or released.  You can adjust at the arm itself.  The arm connections are deserving of some grease, although it's hard to get in there.

Joe

[bigwaves]

My new V7C will not shift into any gear until it warms up for a few minutes.  I'm not really concerned as the bike has to go back in for its first check up.  I just don't want to get stranded.  Is this common issue with Guzzi? 

[oldmanjob]

I never had that problem with mine.

The old Bill ;D

[ponti_33609]

Hmmmm......my V11 does that and I have to let out on the clutch handle a bit and it slips into 1st.  Once warm it is always fine............

[sign216]

Bigwaves, you're talking about going from neutral into 1st, right? 

It's a quirk of the design.  Pre-load the shifter before you pull the clutch and shift. 
What I mean is, slightly press on the shifter with your foot for just a second  or two, and then go to the clutch lever and firmly press the shifter to go into gear.

Without going into the technical details (I need coffee first) let's just say "it's Italian."

Joe

[Morizzi]

Bigwaves, you're talking about going from neutral into 1st, right? 

It's a quirk of the design.  Pre-load the shifter before you pull the clutch and shift. 
What I mean is, slightly press on the shifter with your foot for just a second  or two, and then go to the clutch lever and firmly press the shifter to go into gear.

Without going into the technical details (I need coffee first) let's just say "it's Italian."

Joe

BW,

It is a common design issue, mainly small block, due to being stationary that is easily overcome with rider technique. Joe is correct but read this as a lot of it applies:  ;)

http://guzzista.wetpaint.com/page/Older+Small+Block+Issues%3F

Hi Joe, use the article if you desire, especially before coffee. Its why I wrote it. It answers most questions.  :)

Cheers

Rod

[DanR]

When mine was new it was very hard to up-shift into second when cold but became smooth as butter after a mile or two, improved when I switched to RedLine Heavy Duty Shockproof. It doesn't do it at all now. Give it some miles to break in. You also might want to check the clutch lever adjustment, what works for me is to sit on the bike in first gear motor off, move the bike with your feet work the lever to see where the engagement and disengagement point of the lever is. If it disengages too close to the end off travel against the bar, adjust the cable, for further out disengagement.

[Pfaff!]

My new V7C will not shift into any gear until it warms up for a few minutes.  I'm not really concerned as the bike has to go back in for its first check up.  I just don't want to get stranded.  Is this common issue with Guzzi?  

Much discussed when the Breva was the new&hot bike.

As the second method to Joes advice, you'll have a troublefree shift to 1st, by letting the clutch bite just a tiny little bit, when kicking in the gear.
If you cannot find the engaging point by fingerspitzgefühl, as Audi would put it, it's a good advice to keep the front brake engaged when performing the procedure...  ;D

[Thunderbox]

The clutch is out of adjustment.  When you get the service done I would think it will be perfect once again.

[Muzz]

A smallblock quirk, and some do it and some don't. Mine never did, but Luig ~;i did build some other quirks to compensate... :'(  Mine has always shifted slicker than a hot knife through butter.

[londonbill]

When I first got mine I had the same trouble.
I suspected the clutch wasn't fully disengaging to I wound in the clutch cable a couple of turns, which sorted it.

[Muzz]

When I first got mine I had the same trouble.
I suspected the clutch wasn't fully disengaging to I wound in the clutch cable a couple of turns, which sorted it.

Some do respond to clutch adjustment. Mine does as I have very short fingers and have put a "stopper" in the handle to bring it in a bit closer so I can reach it. However, that means there is a VERY close tolerance between the free play and clutch drag, but it can be done.

Having scrutinised my g/box with an intense scrute when I had it apart, I suspect that there are a couple of dogs in there that sometimes dont go in straight off. The "release the clutch and rock" is probably enough to make them line up and in she goes. Coming up to an intersection I usually come to a complete stop and knock it in to neutral. Seems to go straight in doing that, not that it has ever been a problem anyway.

[ronatd]

I am a very happy of a new V7C (just traded the Vespa 300 for it), and mine has exactly the same issue. If I keep pressure down on the shift lever and very slightly engage the clutch it pops right into gear. I suspect a very tight tolerance on some dogs, that will eventually "break in". It reminds me of the stiff shifting on brand new Campagnolo bicycle components. After a bit of use, they get very smooth.

[Moto Fugazzi]

My V7C has always been tough to shift until it warms up. I figured it was just the way it is from the thick gear oil in it. It's been 40-50f (or colder) just about every day this year, so I figured that added to the slow shifting. Once it warms up (less than 1/2 mile), it shifts perfectly.
The clutch was adjusted at first service, and I didn't notice any difference.

[bigwaves]

Thanks for all the great advice worked perfect.  Got to love these V7C!

[Tom]

Didn't have that problem with my small block then again the low's get down to the low 70's here anyway.  :-* :-* :-*

[Pfaff!]

Didn't have that problem with my small block then again the low's get down to the low 70's here anyway.  :-* :-* :-*

Too much strong coffee tonight, eh? ;D

[Tom]

Good one!  ;D  But in that case it would be a short block that works better in frequent short runs at higher rpm's then the big blocks.  :-* :-* :-* :-*  ;D