The V7 shifting / shifter problems & questions thread

[Tazturtle]

Yes it will improve as the box wears in. It is a straight cut gearbox and neutral can be a little bit of a tap dance, especially when the box is hot. 1st requires clutch technique. on the other hand, when the box is cold. File under "Character"!

There is a massive amount of adjustment in the lever position. Check the threaded rod that runs beside your foot. Loosen off the two locknuts (one either end) and then turn the rod to adjust to your heart's content. You'll also see the end of the shifter is mounted on a cam - you can loosen off the hex bolt and rotate the shift alloy/rubber to where you want it.

The pegs themselves can also be raised rearwards and dropped forwards about 1/2" with a single bolt. Those  billet rearset pegs on the Racer are a work of art!

[Lee Bruns]

Those in the know, who have opened up one of those gearboxes can educate me on this, but I was under the impression that the transmission on those was pretty much the same as the 1986 small blocks. Or am I mistaken. Meaning, thats just how they are, long throw and inprecise.

[lucydad]

Muschi,

I have about 140 miles on my new V7R.  The first fifty miles the transmission seemed stiff, and neutral elusive.  Second ride it got better and yesterday better still.  My interpretation is these bikes need some break-in, and then the shifting gets easier.  I also think a gentle touch with the boot is preferred.  My riding style includes a lot of shifting, on purpose right now, to get used to the bike and get those metal bits meshing.

Yes, you can adjust the linkage, I played with mine a bit, and also the clutch free play.  I think if you are patient, you will have less problems. But, I am far from an expert.

Good luck!

[sign216]

Proper clutch freeplay if I remember right, is 1mm.  Next to nothing, but not nothing.  Try to get near that number, as too much or too little can wear the mechanism (tired, don't want to dig up the details).

Lee, in some ways you're right that the trans is a design from 1986, but actually Guzzi has made a number of improvements.  The modern smallblock transmission is much better now than the old days.  There is better lubrication for 5th gear, better shifting, durability, etc.

I'm not sure if the trans gets better with use, or the rider simply learns how to deal with it's idiosyncrasies.  Probably a little of both.  I know it was that way with me.

Joe

[rocker59]

There have been a bunch of threads on this V7 shifting issue.  I'm going to merge as many as I can drag with the search engine.

[pmr15]

Thanks to all for the great feedback. I will give the shifting issue a little more time as the bike breaks in to see if it resolves.  Also thanks for the instruction on the lever adjustment. Sounds like a fairly easy task - I will give it a try. Pmr15.

[OJM]

I've got a 2013 V7 Stone with just over 10,000 km and recently, I've found myself occasionally approaching an intersection, trying to gear down from second to first and having no luck. So, when the light turns green, I'm stuck in second gear and having to rev up the engine more than usual to pull away.   It's been happening most often in stop and go traffic.  But it doesn't happen consistently. On my last commute, I once found myself unable to gear down from third. 

I had the bike with the dealer for routine annual maintenance in January.  I also checked the free-play and there is about 1/8 of an inch at the clutch lever. The lock nuts are tight.  I also left it with the dealer last week to see if they could figure it out and they claimed they couldn't reproduce the symptoms.  When I picked up the bike again from the dealer, the symptoms reappeared for me.  Appreciate any thoughts on what might be the problem ..... with the bike :)

[rocker59]

Are you rolling or sitting still when trying to gear down?

[ponti_33609]

FWIW - I have about 100 miles on my new V7.  I actually find that it goes into first gear (both moving stopped) similar and even slightly easier than my old V11 Sport.  Unless there is some other issue with the setup the rocking certainly makes it easier as well as letting out the clutch just a smidgen.

[Loftness]

I've got a 2013 V7 Stone with just over 10,000 km and recently, I've found myself occasionally approaching an intersection, trying to gear down from second to first and having no luck. So, when the light turns green, I'm stuck in second gear and having to rev up the engine more than usual to pull away.   It's been happening most often in stop and go traffic.  But it doesn't happen consistently. On my last commute, I once found myself unable to gear down from third.  (etc)

I've had this issue on mine as well.  It's only happened on longer rides and stop and go on hot days, as if something is swelling and preventing the shift.  Doesn't happen often, but when it does it's bad.  I don't have a solution though aside from pulling over, turning off the bike, and letting everything cool down a quick minute.

[Kev m]

There's no reason to EVER pull away in 2nd on that bike.

1. Slip the clutch a little as you try and shift it into first. If necessary slip it for a second, pull the lever back again and shift at the same time. It should work.

but

2. If "1" doesn't work then the clutch cable is NOT properly adjusted and is, most likely, not fully releasing when held toward the grip.

In my experience a number of machines (demo, my own when delivered etc.) simply were not releasing the clutch sufficiently when the held toward the grip. The first time I rode a V7 Stone demo (and it was it's maiden voyage from the dealership) the clutch had not been touched and I literally had to pull over on the side of the road, shut off the motor, and adjust it before I could easily shift from 2-1 not moving.

[Kev m]

I've had this issue on mine as well.  It's only happened on longer rides and stop and go on hot days, as if something is swelling and preventing the shift.  Doesn't happen often, but when it does it's bad.  I don't have a solution though aside from pulling over, turning off the bike, and letting everything cool down a quick minute.

I too have noticed the shifter can get tougher in very hot weather... and I agree I've always thought it was heat expansion reducing play. But again, careful clutch adjustment seems to eliminate or minimize it.

[OJM]

Are you rolling or sitting still when trying to gear down?

I'm still rolling while gearing down ...

[OJM]

There's no reason to EVER pull away in 2nd on that bike.

1. Slip the clutch a little as you try and shift it into first. If necessary slip it for a second, pull the lever back again and shift at the same time. It should work.

but

2. If "1" doesn't work then the clutch cable is NOT properly adjusted and is, most likely, not fully releasing when held toward the grip.

In my experience a number of machines (demo, my own when delivered etc.) simply were not releasing the clutch sufficiently when the held toward the grip. The first time I rode a V7 Stone demo (and it was it's maiden voyage from the dealership) the clutch had not been touched and I literally had to pull over on the side of the road, shut off the motor, and adjust it before I could easily shift from 2-1 not moving.

Thanks.  I'll give "1." a try.

In terms of "2.", I have the play on the lever set at about 1/8".  Should it be tighter or looser?   

Re: local temperatures, it's between 10C and 15C here in Victoria BC, so I don't think that's a major factor.

thx all

[Kev m]

Thanks.  I'll give "1." a try.

In terms of "2.", I have the play on the lever set at about 1/8".  Should it be tighter or looser?   

Re: local temperatures, it's between 10C and 15C here in Victoria BC, so I don't think that's a major factor.

thx all

Try a TAD tighter. Make sure that when the lever is held to the grip it is truly releasing the clutch and allowing the input shaft to stop spinning.

Just make sure it isn't so tight that it allows it to slip when you let go of the lever.

[Muzz]

Funny, I have never had that problem on the Breva.

However, when Steamdriven and myself had the box apart (again) to replace the Mk11 pattern pre-select mechanism that was not supposed to jamb but did, we saw that the one noticeable area that the V7 box was different was in the style of that pre-selector mechanism. Don't know whether it has any bearing on the problem but it begs the question why MG have had three different iterations in basically the same box.

[OJM]

There's no reason to EVER pull away in 2nd on that bike.

1. Slip the clutch a little as you try and shift it into first. If necessary slip it for a second, pull the lever back again and shift at the same time. It should work.

but

2. If "1" doesn't work then the clutch cable is NOT properly adjusted and is, most likely, not fully releasing when held toward the grip.

In my experience a number of machines (demo, my own when delivered etc.) simply were not releasing the clutch sufficiently when the held toward the grip. The first time I rode a V7 Stone demo (and it was it's maiden voyage from the dealership) the clutch had not been touched and I literally had to pull over on the side of the road, shut off the motor, and adjust it before I could easily shift from 2-1 not moving.

I tried both "1." and "2." over the weekend, but no luck.  And the downshifting problem is becoming more frequent.  I'm thinking that my V7 Stone is now destined for a clutch job very soon.  :(

[Penderic]

Before you do that .....

Check for any slop or looseness in the shift linkage - I had trouble shifting for a while until I found my shift arm #9 in the diagram, was loose. I had to replace the fastener #6 with a new one.


Check for any slop in the linkages!

[malik]

And on my 1100 Sport, that shift arm would no longer grip the spline. Removing some of the metal with a 1mm disc in an angle grinder widened the split enough for the bolt to grip. Got me back on the road again (in the pouring rain on the west coast of NZ's South Island, thanks to a friendly local).

Mal

[OJM]

Before you do that .....

Check for any slop or looseness in the shift linkage - I had trouble shifting for a while until I found my shift arm #9 in the diagram, was loose. I had to replace the fastener #6 with a new one.


Check for any slop in the linkages!

I checked the linkage.  Unfortunately, all seems tight. 

[Muzz]

(in the pouring rain on the west coast of NZ's South Island, thanks to a friendly local).

Mal

It don't do anything else over there. ;D

[Kev m]

OK, only because he's tried everything else shy of removing and opening the box, here's the last adjustment (the arm on the transmission):

Pete Roper:

 OK. Firstly, unless you have an issue leave it alone!

 There should be a couple of mm of movement at the lever on the bar before you begin to feel resistance. This is the free play needed to prevent the arm riding the thrust bearing and constantly pre-loading the clutch. I know a lot of people like the clutch lever to feel 'Firm' and not move about in the perch but this is actually bad for the system. You have to have that free play!

 If you have the handlebar adjuster on the perch backed all the way out and there is still TOO MUCH free play at the bar? Then and only then do you need to frig about with the difficult to access adjuster on the actuating arm on the back of the gearbox.

 In the case you cannot get the free play right with the perch adjuster proceed like this.

 1.) Turn the perch adjuster 3/4 of the way in towards the lever increasing the free play.

 2.) Grab a 13mm spanner and I think for a V7 of your vintage a 3mm Allen key and lie down by the bike. Make sure it can't fall on you while you're messing about. If you have a lift? Elevate the bike appropriately.

 3.) Loosen the 13mm locknut on the arm adjuster and then using the Allen key wind the adjuster IN towards the engine until resistance is felt. Back it off about an eighth of a turn and lock up the locknut.

 4.) Slither out cursing from under the bike and go round and feel the free play in the lever on the handlebar. If it is close to the 2mm of free play you are aiming for simply use the perch adjuster to get it right and you're done. If it is too tight? Get back under the bike and loosen the locknut and wind the arm adjuster out a smidge more. If you still have too much play at the lever wind the arm adjuster in a bit and lock it up again.

 5.) Repeat step 4 until you have the free play correct and most of the adjustment at the perch is available for tightening in service. This will coincide with your being really dirty and pissed off but life's like that.

 6.) Put 13mm spanner and Allen key back in toolbox, curse, brush off as much grot as possible from your clothes and go to the fridge and crack a beer.

[OJM]

thx Kev:  Appreciate you taking the trouble to dig this up for me. I'll give this a go on the weekend.  

[sign216]

Funny, I have never had that problem on the Breva.

However, when Steamdriven and myself had the box apart (again) to replace the Mk11 pattern pre-select mechanism that was not supposed to jamb but did, we saw that the one noticeable area that the V7 box was different was in the style of that pre-selector mechanism. Don't know whether it has any bearing on the problem but it begs the question why MG have had three different iterations in basically the same box.

Three different versions of the pre-selectors?  Well, I hope they are all improvements on the previous version. 

[kevdog3019]

Three different versions of the pre-selectors?  Well, I hope they are all improvements on the previous version. 

Sounds like they all behave the same no matter the selector, so technique is the key.  All gears are easier to find while in motion.  As you're coming to a stop, find neutral while in motion as well as all downshifts.  Best of luck downshifting while stopped.  First gear is a hit/miss thing, but better while warmed up and broken in. This thread will pull a lot of newbies in thinking they have an issue when they don't.  Give it time and use proper techniques given and 99% should be just fine. 

[OJM]

OK, only because he's tried everything else shy of removing and opening the box, here's the last adjustment (the arm on the transmission):

Quote
Pete Roper:

 OK. Firstly, unless you have an issue leave it alone!

 There should be a couple of mm of movement at the lever on the bar before you begin to feel resistance. This is the free play needed to prevent the arm riding the thrust bearing and constantly pre-loading the clutch. I know a lot of people like the clutch lever to feel 'Firm' and not move about in the perch but this is actually bad for the system. You have to have that free play!

 If you have the handlebar adjuster on the perch backed all the way out and there is still TOO MUCH free play at the bar? Then and only then do you need to frig about with the difficult to access adjuster on the actuating arm on the back of the gearbox.

 In the case you cannot get the free play right with the perch adjuster proceed like this.

 1.) Turn the perch adjuster 3/4 of the way in towards the lever increasing the free play.

 2.) Grab a 13mm spanner and I think for a V7 of your vintage a 3mm Allen key and lie down by the bike. Make sure it can't fall on you while you're messing about. If you have a lift? Elevate the bike appropriately.

 3.) Loosen the 13mm locknut on the arm adjuster and then using the Allen key wind the adjuster IN towards the engine until resistance is felt. Back it off about an eighth of a turn and lock up the locknut.

 4.) Slither out cursing from under the bike and go round and feel the free play in the lever on the handlebar. If it is close to the 2mm of free play you are aiming for simply use the perch adjuster to get it right and you're done. If it is too tight? Get back under the bike and loosen the locknut and wind the arm adjuster out a smidge more. If you still have too much play at the lever wind the arm adjuster in a bit and lock it up again.

 5.) Repeat step 4 until you have the free play correct and most of the adjustment at the perch is available for tightening in service. This will coincide with your being really dirty and pissed off but life's like that.

 6.) Put 13mm spanner and Allen key back in toolbox, curse, brush off as much grot as possible from your clothes and go to the fridge and crack a beer.

I gave this a go and but when I had a look for the "arm adjuster" near the transmission, I couldn't see one.  The clutch cable appears to be connected directly to the clutch release shaft on the transmission.  Not giving up, this weekend I took my bike to a local motorcycle coop for some advice.  After a quick spin, the mechanic suggested that my shifter linkage is indeed sloppy and that the problem could be a failed shifter return spring....the spring near the letter "A" in the image posted by Penderic above.  I'm going to let coop's mechanic have a closer look next week...

[OJM]

Just a quick update to say that the coop's mechanic was right.  The shifter return spring had failed but ... because it wasn't completely broken, it would work intermitantly.    So having had the spring replaced, I'm a few $hundred lighter now .... but things are working nicely again.

Here's a photo of the offending part.

[Kev m]

Awesome! Glad to hear and thanks for reporting back!!!

[Muzz]

This thread will pull a lot of newbies in thinking they have an issue when they don't.  Give it time and use proper techniques given and 99% should be just fine.

Correct.  The first pre-selector fork did not last long in production at all.  Mine is a 2003 model and it had the later one fitted. It was just bad luck that I got a 2nd generation one that just happened to be able to jam.  Before we installed the 2nd hand one that Pete sent over we tried to get it to jam but could not.

OJM, that is the first spring break that I know of to happen in the small block gear box. Simple bad luck.

[rbond]

My .02 worth. Proper clutch adjustment is first. Second, I use full synthetic gear oil. Some times I will get a clunk into first when cold, most I won't. It has gotten better with miles (now 3900),  but the best advice I got here is to 'preload' the shift lever and it WILL shift much smoother more often. With previous experience with Italian transmissions, it will take a lot of miles to get close to Japanese smooth and consistent shifting. It is just the 'character' of the bike.