So next time I won't count with my fingers laying on the couch with my laptop on my belly while eating my lunch. :food :BEER:
You nit picked my numbers which were off but missed the point of my post. I was responding to Goose who commented and I quote "Guzzi's were built by people making decent wages, using parts made in Europe by folks making decent wages. Now they want premium money for non premium stuff. And they still cannot get it right out the door".
Red, I'm sorry, I hope you didn't take my nit picking the wrong way. I didn't miss your point, which I don't disagree with, but simply objected to the skewed perspective caused by a few slight inaccuracies.
I felt it contributed too or possibly stemmed from a myth of HD pricing I've long seen presented (mostly, but not exclusively, by non-HD riders) over the years. So since we're on this tangent of pricing let's examine it closer.Are GUZZI's and HARLEY'S PRICES "premium" or high?I would argue that generally speaking they are right in the ballpark with many other brands. Though some of the Asian products will sometimes undercut them by a percentage, there are equally times where they are on the low end of the range.
It can be difficult to compare as some brands/models just don't have as many similarities.
But here is smattering of competitive product pricing across the Harley and Guzzi lines by brand's closest CC capacity motor and when possible by bike type/purpose/category (realizing some bikes just aren't in the same category as Harleys are primarily cruisers/tourers and not sports, adventure tourers etc.).
I left out some of the Sports from Triumph and Ducati brands because they are just so ridiculous to compare say a Street Triple to something remotely close in CCs in a Harley - it's like comparing a Alfa Romeo to a Chevy Truck at that point. Similarly I only picked a few of the Asian brand products that I felt more closely aligned in category/type and left out things from Dirt Bikes to SuperSports. And I didn't even try to account for all the "Cruisers", but I've done the Cruiser only comparison before and what you see here is mostly representative.
Highest in Category in RED
Lowest in GreenBeginner/Learner Bikes 750cc and smaller:
Street 500/750 - $6.8k/$7.5K
BMW G650GS, C650GT - $7.9k, $10.5k
Honda CB500F - $5.8kSmaller Bikes 700-900cc
Sportster 883L/N - $8.3/$8.4k
Guzzi V7 Stone/Special/Racer - $8.5k/$9.3k/$10.5k
BMW F700GS/F800GS/F800GS Adv/F800GT/F800R - $9.9k/$12.2k/$13.7k
Ducati Scrambler Icon/Classic/Full Throttle/Urban End - $8.5k/$9.9k/$9.9k/$9.9k
Triumph Bonnie Variants - Bonnie SE/America/T100 Black/Scrambler/T100/ - $8.0k/$8.4k/$8.9k/$9.1K/$9.4K/ (really could put some of these under 1200 Sporty too)
Honda Shadow 750/NC700X/Shadow Aero 750 - $7.5k
Yamaha Bolt/Bolt R/Bolt C-Spec - $7.9k/$8.4K/$8.7k1000-1200cc Standards/Sports
Sportster 1200 C/X/V/T - $10.7/$10.8/$10.9/$11.8k
Guzzi Griso 8V - $12.9k
BMW R1200R - $13.9k
Ducati Monster 821 Dark/821/1200/1200S - $10.9k/$11.5K/$13.7k/$15.9k
Indian Scout - $10.9k
Triumph Bonnie Thruxton/America LT- $9.5k
Honda CB1100X - $10.4kMid-Range/Larger Cruisers/Sport Tourers/Standards:
Dyna Street Bob/Low Rider/Fat Bob/Wide Glide/Switchback - $14.2k/$14.2k/$15.7k/$15.8k/$16.9k
Guzzi Norge GT 8V - $16.2k
BMW R9T - $14.5k (or maybe this should go under Vrod, there's no real direct comparison)
BMW - R1200RT - $17.7k
(Arguably Switchback comparison)
Triumph Tbird/Tbird Storm/Tbird Comm/Tbird LT - $13.5k
/$14.7k/$15.7K/$16.7k1200-1400cc Sport Cruisers/Muscle Bikes
V-Rod Variants - $16.2k/$16.6k
Guzzi Cali 1400C - $15.5k (Could compare this with the Dynas too)
BMW - K1300S - $15.8k
Ducati Diavel/Diavel Carbon/Diavel Titanium - $17.9k*
/$21.4k/$27.9k (that last, along with the Panigale really compare better to the CVO models)
Triumph RIII - $14.9k
Honda Valkyrie - $17.9k**The Diavel Carbon/Titanium just kinda corrupt the results, well, that's true on a lot of these that an oddity in the category is the highest.
Tough to compare w/ some brands, but I'll call Softails "a specialty for Harley, and the following a specialty for some of the below"):SPECIALTY BIKES
Softail Slim/Fat Boy Lo/Fat Boy/Deluxe/Heritage/Breakout - $15.9k/
Guzzi Stelvio NTX - $15.9k
R1200GS/R1200GS Adv - $16.2k/$18.3K
Indian Dark Horse/Classic/Vintage - $16.9k/$18.9K/$20.9k
Triumph Explorer/Explorer XR - $15.7k/$17.2kFULL BOAT TOURERS
Glide Touring Variants Road King/Street Glide/Street Glide Special/Ultra/Ultra Low/Ultra Limited/Ultra Limtd Low - $18.5k/$20.6k/$22.9k/$23.2k/$24.4k/$26.1k/$27k
Guzzi Cali 1400T - $18.5k
BMW - K1600GT/GTL/GTL Exclu - $21.7k/$23.9k/$29.9k*
Indian - Chieftain/Roadmaster - $22.9k/$26.9k
Triumph RIII T/Trophy - $16.9k
Honda GW F6B/F6B Delux/GW 1800 - $20.5k/$21.5k/$23.9k* Maybe the GTL Exclusive is getting to a level like the CVO's and should be eliminated, as which point the Ultra Limited becomes most expensive, but you'll see the rest listed are quite competitiveNow I fully recognize that many of these bikes could be fit into other categories and the comparisons high/low might come out a little different. And any one person might not cross-shop a number bikes in a given category, or might chose to cross-shop across my categories.
I admit it's imperfect. But I do think it gives an idea of the relative product lines and the relative prices. That generally speaking Triumph and some of the Asian brands may be slightly lower than Harley, Guzzi, BMW and other "premium" brands. But I also see that Harley and Guzzi are, more often than not, right in the ballpark.