Countersteering / Counter Steering / Gyroscopic Merged Threadfest

[twowheeladdict]

More than one , worse than an oil thread 

 Good video .

 Dusty

How can this even compare to an oil thread.  You either ride a bike correctly (counter steering) or you don't.  Nothing left for opinion. 

I learned to counter steer in the early 60s on my bicycles.  I just didn't know there was a name for it.   

[oldbike54]

How can this even compare to an oil thread.  You either ride a bike correctly (counter steering) or you don't.  Nothing left for opinion. 

I learned to counter steer in the early 60s on my bicycles.  I just didn't know there was a name for it.   

 Obviously you weren't here during the last countersteering megathreadfest .

 Dusty

[Huzo]

Could we merge them and have a thread about countersteering around oil patches and which oil is slipperier ?
(Slipperyer, Slipperieiyer, Slippier......?.)

[oldbike54]

Could we merge them and have a thread about countersteering around oil patches and which oil is slipperier ?
(Slipperyer, Slipperieiyer, Slippier......?.)

 No .

 Dusty

[Wayne Orwig]

How can this even compare to an oil thread.  You either ride a bike correctly (counter steering) or you don't.  Nothing left for opinion. 

I learned to counter steer in the early 60s on my bicycles.  I just didn't know there was a name for it.   

Trust me, there are those that have ridden a LONG time, and still refuse to understand it. As far as they are concerned, you only lean, not counter steer. When I was teaching the MSF classes, these same 'experienced' riders failed when they were unable to pass the part of the test where you swerve. 
Duh.

Toss in a few comments from those with sidecars to keep the thread alive, and it can be like an oil thread.

[tris]

I know you have to counter steer a bike above a certain speed and having watched OJs video understand the physics a bit more.
However I'm highly likely to give the bars a shove on a ride just so that I can marvel at the way the bike reacts.   

[Huzo]

I know you have to counter steer a bike above a certain speed and having watched OJs video understand the physics a bit more.
However I'm highly likely to give the bars a shove on a ride just so that I can marvel at the way the bike reacts.   

You countersteer at every speed Tris.
The force required is a function of velocity, slow speed low force.

[Huzo]

How can this even compare to an oil thread.  You either ride a bike correctly (counter steering) or you don't.  Nothing left for opinion. 

I learned to counter steer in the early 60s on my bicycles.  I just didn't know there was a name for it.   

Damn right.
Anyone reading this thread is not dead, so is therefore riding correctly.
We are all doing it, but we understand it to a different degree.
Some are 100% across the concept and some are clueless.
Most of us are somewhere in between.
For me it’s not how well you understand it, I just cringe when someone says they “decided” to use the technique.
No...
They “decided” to try to understand it a bit better.

[Devildog]

Well said Huzo.

[wirespokes]

You countersteer at every speed Tris.
The force required is a function of velocity, slow speed low force.

Actually, I think at slow speeds (below 5 or 10mph) you steer normally.

So what's the trick for steering through oil?

[RinkRat II]

      We all do it intuitavely but don't recognize were doin' it.
         Watch this and see.....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljywO-B_yew
           Wirespokes is right.

           Paul B

[Chuck in Indiana]

Wirespokes is right.

Yep. I know an old rider that still thinks you "lean into a turn" though..
I think I'll run out and change my oil. Which one is best for the Aero engine? 

[Huzo]

Actually, I think at slow speeds (below 5 or 10mph) you steer normally.

So what's the trick for steering through oil?

”Normally..?”
Trick for steering through oil ?
Top up your health cover..

[Huzo]

      We all do it intuitavely but don't recognize were doin' it.
         Watch this and see.....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljywO-B_yew
           Wirespokes is right.

           Paul B

The laws of Physics don’t sign off and go on vacation above or below 10 mph...
The effect at low speeds is indescirnable but will still be the force at work.
The time between the initial countersteer input and commencement of turn is very small @ low speeds.
If you think about it the point of view about no countersteering at low speeds must be nonsensical, because were it true, there would be an alteration of technique required when transiting  10 mph.
Ask a Physicist and we can all listen intently.

[Huzo]

Actually, I think at slow speeds (below 5 or 10mph) you steer normally.

So what's the trick for steering through oil?

Get on your pushbike at 5 mph and reach out with your right finger tip, PUSH on the’bar with your right finger TIP, and you will turn right.
At any speed.

[bad Chad]

I find if if I have enough quality corn oil in my rear end i can do amazing angels.  Just saying.

[twowheeladdict]

The laws of Physics don’t sign off and go on vacation above or below 10 mph...
The effect at low speeds is indescirnable but will still be the force at work.
The time between the initial countersteer input and commencement of turn is very small @ low speeds.
If you think about it the point of view about no countersteering at low speeds must be nonsensical, because were it true, there would be an alteration of technique required when transiting  10 mph.
Ask a Physicist and we can all listen intently.

Agreed.

Try to tell people they can only put there left foot down when they come to a stop and they quickly learn that counter steering happens at less than 1 mph.  Push on the left grip as you come to a stop and the weight of the bike will always fall to the left so you can balance it with your left foot. 

[Daleroso]

It's been eluded to here. Keep it simple. I started using the term PUSH steering explaining it especially to novices. Shazzam!! I can see the light come on in their eyes & get positive feedback later. The term counter steering snags in the mind of some.

[Ncdan]

Y'all stop! Next time I ride a curvy road I'll start trying to analyze these  theories and bust my ARSE😂

[Rough Edge racing]

You countersteer at every speed Tris.
The force required is a function of velocity, slow speed low force.

 Turning into my driveway at a slow speed, 7 -10 mph, I am definitely turning the bars into the turn just like a three wheeler.

[twowheeladdict]

Turning into my driveway at a slow speed, 7 -10 mph, I am definitely turning the bars into the turn just like a three wheeler.

No, you are initiating the turn with countersteering, then the wheel turns in to make the turn. 

The only time you aren't countersteering is when you are duck walking the bike or keeping it upright like you might on a gravel road where you put your weight on the outside peg and lean your body into the turn to counterbalance it.

[twowheeladdict]

Turning into my driveway at a slow speed, 7 -10 mph, I am definitely turning the bars into the turn just like a three wheeler.

The next time you want to do that, attempt it at 1 mph.  push on the left grip while pulling on the right grip like you would do if you are turning the bars like a three wheeler and watch what happens.  The bike will go to the left. 

[oldbike54]

 Below a certain speed you are actually steering the bike instead of leaning , thus countersteering doesn't come into play . Think about it , when you are moving a bike around in the garage you steer it in the desired direction of travel .

 I forget now where the article was published , or the exact details , but above a certain speed (300 MPH maybe) , car steering reverses , then above a certain speed (400 MPH ?) it returns to normal . Explain that , go ahead , we'll wait patiently 

 Dusty

[ohiorider]

How can this even compare to an oil thread.  You either ride a bike correctly (counter steering) or you don't.  Nothing left for opinion. 

I learned to counter steer in the early 60s on my bicycles.  I just didn't know there was a name for it.   

You too?  So did I.  I owned a Raleigh English bike that had a three position fork lock.  Being a curious kid, I felt sure I could lock the forks in the straight forward position and ride the bike in a straight line.  Wrong!  Big crash.  Gotta have that handlebar input!

I think I first learned how a bicycle required counter steering to negotiate a turn when I would return from the grocery store holding a large bag of groceries under one arm, while steering with the other.  One learns pretty quickly how a bike steers when you only have one arm to push and pull the handlebar.

I took one of Reg Pridmore's courses (the safe street riding one) and there was a lot of emphasis on weight shifting.  At the time I thought 'yes, it may help, but ....... )  Then (who was it?) that build the bike with handlebars bolted firmly to the frame so they wouldn't turn at all.  No matter how hard a rider weight shifted on this bike, it wouldn't change line.

Bob

EDIT:  Dusty .... Agreed .... there is a very low speed where turning the handlebar right (tricycle steering) causes the bike to turn to the right.  However, there is a crossover speed where counter steering takes over.

[Pizza Guzzi]

I think the simplest expression of the concept I have heard is " Push right, lean right, go right. Push left, lean left, go left. "
I think the reason a rider who doesn't acknowledge the existence of counter steering but claims they steer by simply leaning does so because as they drop their shoulder say to the right this causes the right arm to extend forward slightly pushing the right grip forward - push right, lean right, go right.
To my understanding one of the differences at very low speeds is that the wheels do not turn quickly enough to generate any significant gyroscopic force which is part of the puzzle.

Glenn

[ridingron]

I took one of Reg Pridmore's courses (the safe street riding one) and there was a lot of emphasis on weight shifting.  At the time I thought 'yes, it may help, but ....... )  Then (who was it?) that build the bike with handlebars bolted firmly to the frame so they wouldn't turn at all.  No matter how hard a rider weight shifted on this bike, it wouldn't change line.   

Kieth Code built the bike. The "no BS bike" was designed with a second set handle bars mounted to the frame. The BS stood for body steering.  http://www.soundrider.com/archive/safety-skills/nobsbike.aspx

[Huzo]

Turning into my driveway at a slow speed, 7 -10 mph, I am definitely turning the bars into the turn just like a three wheeler.

Yes, but not initially.
It doesn’t matter how often you say it.
Have a nice day.

[oldbike54]

Yes, but not initially.
It doesn’t matter how often you say it.
Have a nice day.

 Watch any Motor Officer competition and you will quickly see that is wrong . At slow speeds you steer into the turn .

 Dusty

[RinkRat II]

  No you didn't, Yes I did, no you didn't, Yes I did................ ..................W asn't there a Monty Python sketch about this??

       Paul B

[Idontwantapickle]

  No you didn't, Yes I did, no you didn't, Yes I did................ ..................W asn't there a Monty Python sketch about this??

       Paul B

No there wasn't!!