New Moto Guzzi Door Mats Available Now
<So if you are going to compare apples to apples then quote the Road King after you "spend more on a pipes and an air-cleaner". If HD is so good at taking care of their customers then it's fairly obvious setting up their bikes to purposefully require upgrades to increase power is a complete contradiction of that notion. And the amazing thing is 75% of HD owners are loyal to a company that detunes their bike at the factory so you drop and extra $1k or more to get it running like it should have right out of the crate. They are laughing all the way to the bank on that one.>Tuning on all brands is to meet Government regulation. I have spent a few bucks on my Stelvio to get it to run as I think it should.Bob
The point was that Harley appears to be holding back on performance to some extent, so they can make some money on performance enhancing accessories. I don't think anyone has presented a valid argument against that. I also have no problem with a marketing strategy that helps keep a company profitable in a competitive market. If one doesn't like it, one doesn't need to buy the product.
Seems to me if you read Kev's post he said that that is government regulations are not at issue here. I will quote him again and where does this say anything about the EPA. This is about HD detuning their bikes to sell more aftermarket parts. Even Kev admits its "despicable, but it works". I think he is talking about the HD detuning their machines to sell more stuff. Read it and weep. " But Harleys are purposely restricted to get you to spend more on a pipes and an air-cleaner. You can expect a 10-20% increase in power on a Harley just by adding 50-STATE STREET LEGAL accessory pipes, an air-cleaner and a reflash. At least half of that benefit can come from the pipes ALONE. Yeah, that's a little despicable, but it works."
Interesting discussion. I suspect many posters have not ridden a modern Harley. My girlfriend has a '14 Softtail , and it is fast, comfy and reliable. It feels a lot lighter than a new Cali, but it isn't. The V-rod is in another league altogether. It feels solid, goes like crazy, and feels very solid. I am seriously considering one. The original question said "Harley v twin engine", my Buell fits. My 99 X1 1200cc Buell is very similar to a Guzzi. Yes, the torque is down lower, and it runs out of steam at 6800, but there is something wonderful about that rumble, and the leap forward when you crack the throttle. I have a 77 XLCR Sporster, and that is the worst vibrating antique ever, but it feels like I am riding something from WW1, and the torque and light weight are quite wonderful. It is an experience. So is my LeMans in a different way. In my opinion, Harleys and Guzzis make good stable mates.
"Fast ?" Dusty
Interesting discussion. I suspect many posters have not ridden a modern Harley. .
In my opinion, Harleys and Guzzis make good stable mates.
No weeping for me, my main ride is a Stelvio and that runs much better since I did some aftermarket tuning, I consider it just part of making a motorcycle mine. I have most likely owned over fifty motorcycles and I can't remember a single one of them that I didn't change in someway to make it the way it suited me.Bob
Hey I put on a set on SS Agostini's on my 90 Mille. I was told to Euro jet it and open the air box hence I burn the valves. The performance increase was dramatic but I lost a good 5+ mph on average. Now this was an EPA bike small valve and 30 mm carbs. It was a lean as they could make it to get it into the US. Frankly as much as I like the performance of the package I am sorry I did it as I am to much of an environmentalist to justify my hot rodding my toy and with the end product of burning more high octance gas. So I live with that but that is my personal decision and I am not bitching about anybody who mods there engine for performance. So I slap myself in the face before riding it and come back with a big after riding it. Even then I am sure there are many on this forum who would love the 48-50 MPG I get on the Mille.
So the engine was so lean it burned valves? It must have been a noticeable flat spot of lack of throttle response from such a lean out... Did you notice anything else like pinging?........ In my many years messing with aircooled bikes ,I've never seen valves ruined by improper carburation, but have seen many pistons with holes in the crown caused by pre ignition as a result of lean air fuel mixture.
How are you getting those predictions?Mid 12's seems pretty optimistic. Then again the Stelvio should be low 12's to HIGH 11's.
No. Those are numbers real people are getting ...on various Harley Forums. I have ridden a couple different Softtails, even did some touring on one, so I know how quick they are. (I hang out everywhere...lol. ) You should ride one. The 103 was quick, and now they are 110s with 109 ft.lbs torque.
Quick/fast compared to a lot of Guzzis. High 12s (okay, with her filter and V&H 2 into 1, probably mid 12s), and with all that torque it feels fast. Pretty close to the Californa 1400. Yes my Stelvio is quicker, but a 2 valve Guzzi rider is going to have a rough time keeping up to my girlfriend until the road gets really twisty, and she drags the floorboards all the time...lol When she whacks the throttle open, I have to drop a gear on the Stelvio to stay with her...though I can blow by if I hold it open... The V-Rod runs low 11s (about the same as my Buell X1)...103rwhp or so (122 crank). I think the styling scares people off, but I think it is a helluva nice bike.
Well I have ridden some, but yes, not the 103" or 110" motors.Still the 96" was seeing mid 13's.<shrugs>
the VRod will out run any stock Guzzi.
It was a big jump from 96 to 103 (somewhere around 114cc, and a higher compression ratio).
Harley won't list HP ratings. They are still slow.......
Check the Screaming Eagle Parts Catalogs. You can usually find the stock ratings there to be compared with the SE Stage I or II kit ratings.I'll post what I've found tomorrow if I get some time at my desk. But yeah, I don't recall seeing a big jump between any one set of BT motors.
They are still slow.......... Party like it's 1999.
Meh, apples and pomegranates.Besides there's always someone faster.About 99.9% of the owners and riders of these kind of bikes (Harleys and cruisers) don't care, and most of riders of other kinds are probably fooling themselves anyway.There's only ever one top dog at a time, and all the rest are making the same compromise, just to a different degree.
